Doppelstandards bei Sexobjekten

In einem Artikel mit dem Tiel „Why can we perve on men but not on women?“ findet sich eine interessante Betrachtung:

The Crusaders rugby team were also at the pool, warming down after their weekend game.

As they walked to the water in their togs, all eyes turned to stare at their chiselled shirtless bodies. People openly gaped at their rippling muscles, with some wolf whistling and grabbing their phones to snap a discreet pic.

I’m not going to lie, I too indulged in a wee perve (it was impressive!) but I tried to keep it discreet and get on with my workout.

It was only afterwards that I thought about how overt everyone’s appreciation of the men was. No-one considered that the Crusaders might feel embarrassed or uncomfortable by the attention.

If it was a team of cheerleaders jumping around in the pool instead of rugby players, would men have been drooling in the same manner? Probably, but I think they would have been a bit more subtle about it and other women would have been clucking their tongues about „perverts“.

When a female sportswoman is revered for her body people cry foul about not appreciating her sporting prowess, but a male’s sexy body seems to be an accepted part of the package.

A similar incident happened at a dinner with friends recently.

My girlfriend and I were talking about our other friend’s younger brother who is 17 and, shall we say, developing nicely.

We were discussing the merits of his muscles, when a man at the table interrupted our chat.

„If that was us talking about a girl in that way, you’d all be calling us disgusting,“ he said.

It was true.

If they men had been speaking that way about a young girl, praising her curves, I would have been really creeped out.

There seems to be a massive double standard between the sexes when it comes to sexual objectification.

Why is it acceptable that women can sexualise and openly harass young men, but it can’t go the other way around?

In the case of the Crusaders, they had the added attraction of being famous bodies (a woman next to me shrieked in delight when she noticed Dan’s body among the crowd), but it doesn’t just happen with celebs either.

Go to a bar at night and you’re likely to see a group of women at a hen’s party clawing at young males. They grab them, grope them, call obscenities at them – all as part of the fun and games.

If it was men at a stag party pawing at young females, someone would step in and tell them to back off.

Ich vermute mal die Gründe sind die Folgenden:

  • Männer sind üblicherweise stärker als Frauen und neigen eher zu sexuellen Übergriffen
  • eine kulturelle Ausgestaltung der höheren biologischen Kosten von Sex führt zu einem besseren Schutz von Frauen
  • Frauen beschützen kann attraktiv machen und edle erscheinen
  • von Männern wird eher erwartet sich gegen Angriffe von Frauen wehren zu können
  • es wird aufgrund des höheren Sexualtriebes des Mannes auch eher erwartet, dass sie diese sexuellen Avancen nicht so problematisch finden.
  • weibliche Sexualität wirkt weniger bedrohlich
  • weibliches Gaffen kommt auch weit weniger vor


Game / Pickup für gutaussehende Männer

Pickup für Gutaussehende verläuft im Prinzip nach den gleichen Regeln wie für nicht so gut aussehende, auch hier muss Attraction und Comfort bedient werden- Weil es aber verschiedene Mittel verwendet werden, ergeben sich daraus auch andere Vorgehensweisen, was oft nicht hinreichend beachtet wird.

Der Vorteil ist, dass Attraction hier nicht über das Verhalten aufgebaut werden muss, sondern sich bereits aus dem Aussehen ergibt. Insofern muss man in diese Richtung weniger machen, es kann sogar je nach Frau zuviel sein, wenn man dann noch mehr Attraction aufbaut, weil es dann als zu große Differenz wahrgenommen wird.

Auf dem Blog „Freedom Twenty Five“ heißt es dazu wie folgt:

If you’re good-looking and carry yourself well, you’re playing a different game than everyone else. In the terms of The Mystery Method, you have accomplished most or all of the Attraction stages before you’ve even opened your mouth. As long as you don’t fuck up that attraction by coming across as try-hard, you can skip right ahead to building comfort and escalating. Good-looking men can still get a lot of value out of standard game theory, but they also need to refine their own style in most situations.

Weil man die ersten Stationen schon bedient hat und Attraction bereits besteht, kann für einen schönen Mann zuviel Game ebenso schlecht sein, es geht dann eher um die Vermeidung von „Anti-Game“, also alles was einen needy erscheinen läßt und gerade dem eigentlich gewonnen guten Eindruck entgegen wirkt. Donlak dazu:

Good looking guys are assumed to be alpha. Of course not all good looking guys are alpha, and not all good looking guys actually know how good looking they are to girls, and when this happen, there is a major mis-calibration on how the man presents himself to girls. With assumed alphaness, actual application of game should be minimal. Any game you run can be counter productive, and could produce incongruencies in your behaviour. Girls assume that guys know how much pull they have with girls, and the only way guys can know that, is by how easy it is to slay pussy. So there can be a negative feedback loop that causes a lot of damaging results for a good looking guy running unnecessary game on a girl he shouldn’t be doing. Sometimes it’s easier for everyone else to know what your sexual market place value is than it is for yourself. I see other good looking guys being too beta, and it has the same effect. It just seems wrong to everyone but the actual person. You may also have to plow more to comfort a girl in order for her to believe that you actually like her and aren’t just out to fuck her (which you are) – she may never believe this no matter how much you comfort, and as a result running this game is a disservice and looks beta for a good looking man. Some girls will just take themselves out of the running, and it happens more for good looking guys trying to sleigh 6′s and 7′s.

Being too beta and needy is also amplified by a factor of 10 – why would such a good looking high value man be acting like that. And when you run game, it can come off as acting a little needy, or try hard.

Danach wäre „Game für schöne Männer“ strategisch anders ausgerichtet als Game für Männer, die nicht so schön sind. Für diese würden verschiedene Varianten von Game in der Tat nutzlos und kontraproduktiv sein. Es fehlt dann die Einordnung in die Systematik und das Zusammenspiel der Faktoren innerhalb Attraction und Komfort. Das gute Aussehen ist insoweit eine bestimmte Technik, die andere Techniken ersetzt und nicht unbedingt mit allen kompatibel ist.