Ich hatte neulich schon Artikel, die auf Reddit Artikeln beruhen und durch verschiedene Verlinkungen bin ich auf die Reddit-Gruppe „Dead Bedrooms“ gestoßen. Es geht dort insbesondere um Leute in einer Beziehung, die unglücklich über die „Sexfrequenz“ in dieser Beziehung sind.
Wie zu erwarten gibt es dort verschiedene Fälle und es hat sich ein „Spezialjargon“ herausgebildet, der diese Fälle betrifft:
Ich finde bereits die Abkürzungen ganz interessant:
LL = Lower Libido —> the person who wants less sex in the relationship
HL = Higher Libido —> the person who wants more sex in the relationship.
HL and LL are not related to actual libido, just libido in relation to specific partner. HL could want it only once a month, but their partner only wants it once a year. Both have low libidos as far as the average libido goes, but one is higher than the other.
DB = Dead Bedroom
HLF/HLM = Higher Libido Female/ Higher Libido Male
LLF/LLM = Lower Libido Female/ Lower Libido Male
PIV = Penis in Vagina
LTR = Long Term Relationship
LDR = Long Distance Relationship
NRE = New Relationship Energy
LL4U = low libido for you
Das macht sicherlich für eine Diskussion über „Tote Schlafzimmer“ durchaus Sinn. Einer der Partner wird – sonst wäre kein Problem vorhanden – üblicherweise mehr Sex wollen als der andere, und das kann eben bei heterosexuellen Beziehungen entweder der Mann oder die Frau sein.
Hart ist natürlich „LL4U“, bei der es dann eben anscheinend darum geht, dass der Partner nicht mehr attraktiv gefunden wird.
Gleich den aktuellen Beitrag fand ich recht typisch für eine solche Situation
As I (35m/hl) prepare for my Friday work day, the wife(35/ll) sleeping on the couch as I drink my coffee and wake up, I’m met with the overwhelming urge to just cry. We have had a rough patch for a while now in the bedroom dept. Most everything else is great, aside from the leakage the bedroom issue causes. A few nights back, as I was heading to bed, which is normally hours before her, she came in and after a bit of snuggling I leaned in for a kiss. Apparently my penis(as I sleep naked) brushed her leg prompting her to inform me she wasn’t in the mood for the sex I hadn’t even made any attempt for. Obviously after years of rejection this hurts. Especially following a conscious year and a half effort on my part to completely stop all attempts at initiation. So as I brokenly fold into myself in the bed she starts to ask what’s wrong to which I say how bad it hurts to be preemptively turned down when I really wasn’t even trying for that. Later that evening as I tossed and turned in the bed alone I get a message on my phone. It’s her apologizing for hurting me, explaining how it’s „a knee jerk reaction because I tend to turn cuddling into sex all the time“. I was quite taken back by this and didn’t reply. I fought for sleep while mulling over a response. The following morning I knew what to say and typed a very long, heartfelt reply. I asked of she had even notice that I hadn’t tried for over a year, explained how her teasing, during a 4 month drought felt cruel and hurtful. We ended up having an hour long discussion the following day during my lunch break. Long story short we agree, she agrees we have an issue in that dept, she agrees that the way she has handled things isn’t fair to me, she says she noticed I withdrew but wasn’t sure why(not sure if that was just a cya comment), I told her my biggest fear for our marrage, second to being lost, is that we end up completely devoid of intimacy, and love. Changes must be made an effort must be taken and thins WILL improve, is where we settled. Fast forward three days, I ask her whe. She wakes up if she’d like to ignore the world and spend some time talking dirty with me, I don’t know what I was expecting in return, nervous as hell for a response because this is the first time I’ve really taken a shot at getting any what sexual. Then I got it. And now I think I get it. She said no, nicely, that she had to begin getting her life together because she had to coach a softball game in about 5-6 hours. I sunk… Again I should have know better. I k ow that I shouldn’t just give up but we have seen this road before and I have fleeting faith it will go any other direction than the norm. I just want to give up, withdraw, and live my life with the understanding that I’ve married my roommate, our ultimate end will be living together with no touch between, no intimacy, just shared bills and shared meals. I know one attempt after a talk isn’t sufficient in quantity but man it hurts, I k ow she has her reasons but again it incites some pretty heavy feelings to begin to realize that ultimately things aren’t going to change no matter how I try to show her how I feel. No amout of me explain it will even allot her the ability to feel this way, she often talks about her love language and the ways I could do more to speak to her in that language, however the opposite is not true. Talks are cheap. I don’t know why I keep thinking they will have any effect.
Es erinnert mich an eine Stelle aus dem Buch „Männer sind vom Mars, Frauen von der Venus“, in dem sich eine Liste von Sachen gab, die Männer bzw Frauen in der Beziehung vermissen. Bei den Frauen war da sinngemäß angeführt:
Also Zärtlichkeiten, die nicht nur eine Überleitung zu Sex sind, sondern einfach Zärtlichkeiten.
Und bei den Männern:
Sex, der von ihr veranlasst wird ohne das man etwas dafür machen muss. Sei es normaler Sex oder ein Blowjob einfach so. Sex als reine Bedürfnisbefriedigung.
ich hatte daraus schon mal einen Artikel gemacht.
Dem Artikel nach – wobei wir ja nur seine Seite kennen – ist es aber erstaunlich, dass sie sich auf so gar nichts einlässt. Das würde mir wenig Hoffnung für die weitere Sinnhaftigkeit der Beziehung machen (wobei sicherlich Aspekte wie Kinder und der Umstand, dass man sich wegen dieser nicht trennen will, eine Rolle spielen können)
Und noch ein Beitrag kurz darunter von einer Frau:
My partner (32M) and I (33F)have been seeing each other for ~2 years (officially for like…1.25). Before I asked him out, we had sex everytime we saw each other. Since I asked him out, we’ve had sex 3 times. The last of those three being over a year ago. he hasn’t blame me, at all. he’s put it on his stress/depression/etc. he’s, maybe unintentionally, but still, made it known our income gap makes him feel a bit inadequate (I make a bit more than 2.5x his income WHICH I’ve made very clear is a non-issue to me). I asked if it was lack of attraction over 6 months ago. He confirmed it wasn’t. Brought it up again a couple months ago (around the anniversary of the last time we were intimate 🥺), he reconfirmed it wasn’t a lack of attraction/desire, and he mentioned he has acknowledged he has ED and is looking into that. It’s been 2 months and while I’m all gung-ho about whatever route he needs to take, (he’s going the exercise route before the rx route for now) no judgement, but nothing has changed since then. I went from having sex almost daily prior to seeing him, and even for a bit after, to no sex in over a year. My previous relationships have involved VERY frequent intimacy. He is my person. I love him. But I’m ~dying~. If he touches my leg when we go to bed I go into “THIS IS IT” mode, and then I hear snoring. It’s devastating. I know he says it’s not a lack of attraction or desire, but my ego is getting destroyed and my needs are 100% not being met. I definitely have an above average sex drive, but at this point I’d settle for below average frequency. Do I ride this out? Call it quits? Suggest bringing in a third party? I’ve never had this issue this severely before so…I’m at a loss.
ED wäre wohl erectile dysfunction, also Probleme einen steifen Penis zu bekommen. Eine Depression und das ganze drum herum klingt, insbesondere seine Unsicherheit darüber, dass sie mehr verdient, klingt nach ernsteren psychologischen Problemen.
So I found a thread from 5 years ago describing how much I (HLM 40) was struggling with duty sex from my wife (LLF 38). I could’ve written it yesterday!! It’s astonishing to me that I have been in this situation for over 5 years. A very sobering thought!
The only difference is me. 5 years ago where there was hope and optimism, there is now acceptance and mild bitterness. Countless conversations, lots of effort on my part to be a better partner, and a round of marriage counseling have made no difference. My wife is 100% not capable of giving anything other than the most basic of duty sex. I have accepted that this is the way it will be, probably for the rest of our marriage. I will probably never have enjoyable sex again in my life. That was a bitter pill to swallow, but once I did process the thought I have come to terms with it.
Sex with her is only for me to get off, she gets literally nothing out of it and makes it perfectly clear she’s not enjoying it. Foreplay is a NO NO. I do not initiate anymore, and the only times we have sex is when she insists that we do it. She genuinely believes she is doing me a favor with this, and gets somewhat pissed off if I don’t want to have duty sex. She asks “what do you want me to do, I’m not a porn star!” I would do anything I could to make her enjoy sex more, but she doesn’t want to enjoy it. The topic of sex in general is usually not tolerated, and considered crass and inappropriate.
I suppose my point is to offer a cautionary tale, and give people an insight to what it means to accept a dead bedroom. She’s a good woman, good mother, do-gooder with a heart of gold, everybody loves her. This part of her is simply dead and she has no interest in reviving it.
Traurig und ich kann ihn verstehen, dass er bei offensichtlicher Unlust wenig Lust hat. Ich kann auch sie verstehen, dass sie das Gefühl hat, dass sie ihm ja auch Sex bieten muss, aber es wäre die Frage, ob sie es nicht etwas liebevoller machen sollte oder ob sie dann nicht ggfs auf eine Art sex haben sollte, die eher nur auf ihn zugeschnitten ist und bei der sie dann keine eigene Erregung vortäuschen muss aber vielleicht besser ausdrücken kann, dass es ihr Spass macht ihn zu verwöhnen.
Und noch ein Beitrag von „Pflichtsex“ aus Sicht der Frau:
I’ve always wanted to write one of these retrospectives, and after reading yesterday’s post about thoughts during duty sex, I thought I would contribute. Obviously, these are my own personal thoughts and feelings, extrapolate at your own risk.
Duty sex. I’ve had a ton a it, though I classified it more as maintenance or gift sex. Why you may ask? Because I knew my partner wanted sex. Because I loved him. Because he would be upset and depressed and not talk to me or touch me when I said no. If I said no he wouldn’t pursue it (as far as I can remember anyways), but I would feel the consequences. I mean, touch is one of my love languages goddamn it. So I would say yes. Sometimes the most apathetic yes. Sometimes I would suggest it myself. „Sure if you want“ was my go to phrase.
Then the sex itself. My inner mantra was just „this is fine, you’re fine“ on repeat. But I wasn’t fine. I got wet easily, we never needed lube (and I hate it anyways). But it’s too much stimulation. It’s overwhelming. I don’t want it. I don’t want to be feeling this right now. If it went on long enough I would have a panic attack. Sometimes I would disassociate. But it was my fault, right? This is what partners do. It’s easy, it’s fun. It’s just 15 minutes to make your partner happy. If it’s so bad then it’s on me for not saying no this time, again. It’s not his fault that he doesn’t realize I’m just trying to get through it, trying to not cry, trying to hold on until he is done.
He thinks he hasn’t changed that much. That he didn’t have things to work on, and what he needed to he did awhile ago. He doesn’t notice that now a „no“ doesn’t mean he stops holding me. He doesn’t realize that he notices when I’m a zombie now and doesn’t escalate things when I’m like that, when I would say yes just to make him happy. Sure, I needed to be able to say no, but he needed to be able to hear it, see it. Not willingly blind himself to the problems.
I still have problems with sex itself. I probably always will. It’s a sensory thing, a mental health thing, a thing I will probably never fully control. But our dynamic did a lot to create problems and stop us from getting better for a long time. It’s a work in progress, I can’t say this hasn’t happened in the last 6 months. But we are getting there, and stopping all of this waves hand frantically is a damn good start
Und noch ein Beitrag aus der Sicht einer Frau, die mehr Sex will:
When my husband and I first started dating, we had sex every single day (often multiple times a day) for over a year. We continued to have sex maybe 2-3 times a week while I was pregnant, and now I’m 6 months postpartum and craving sex but we only have actual sex maybe 2 times a month, and it’s driving me crazy. He’s always up for a BJ if I offer it, and sometimes I’m so horny I do it just as SOME kind of sexual interaction with him, but I’m not getting the attention to myself that I need/crave. Any advice? I drop hints all over the place, and feel like they’re being completely ignored. Often he jerks off before getting up for work in the morning, so I’m sure that doesn’t help his libido for later in the day. I can personally guarantee there is no porn use, so that’s not a problem.
I don’t know what I can do to turn him on more. I know having a baby changes a lot, but he always chooses watching a movie or TV over sexy time after the baby is asleep for the night.
Alles eher verzweifelte Fälle und nachlassende Lust scheint mir auch etwas zu sein, was man schwer wieder aktivieren kann. Was dann eine Spirale beiderseitiger Unzufriedenheit erzeugen kann, mit Zurückweisungen und Schuldgefühlen aufgrund dieser etc.